Author Topic: Help with Gnomish Bard  (Read 880 times)

BubbleTough

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Help with Gnomish Bard
« on: September 01, 2004, 11:06:38 AM »
I'm building my first Bard for Mythos (Gnomish Bard, already have cooked up the history), but this will be my first venture into spellcasting so I need some help.

Stats:
Str 10
Dex 16
Con 14
Wis 8
Int 10
Cha 16

Skills:
Spellcraft, Perform, Tumble, and Concentration. I'm not sure if I should invest in Spellcraft as opposed to Use Magic Device, maybe split up points between the both of them?

Feats:
Start Feat will probably be Point Blank Shot, then Extra Music, Rapid Reload, Combat Casting, and Lingering Song in no specific order just yet. I'll eventually want Weapon Focus (Light Crossbow), and I figure Curse Song, Lasting Inspiration, and Improved Combat Casting can all be gained with my Epic Bardic Bonus Feats. Other than those I'm not sure what I should be taking, some advice here would be great.

Spells:
I'll be taking the Summon creatures spells every time when I gain them, this is because Gnomes love animals. I'm not sure what I should be looking for here really, pros/cons of the different spells would be nice. And what about the Gnome's inherant Spell Focus (Illusion), am I able to cast spells from that school of magic? Not sure how this works.

Any other general spellcasting tips will be gladly accepted too. Thanks.
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maxbeedo

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Help with Gnomish Bard
« Reply #1 on: September 01, 2004, 01:10:45 PM »
Spell Focus (Illusion) only adds 2 to the DC of spells you cast from that school, which unfortunately for Bards only includes the 3 Invisible spells, which don't have DCs.

Remember that you'll have a 20% experience penalty for each ally with you, that includes mercs, familiars AND summoned creatures.

Because Bards require a lot more physical damage than Sorcs/Wizards, I took a few levels in Rogue so I had some sneak attack bonuses (which apply a lot more than they should), plus you get a lot more skill pts in rogue skills.  I also wore armor most of the time..... I took off the armor, used all the buff spells Bards can use, then put it back on.  Annoying, but effective.

Spellcraft gives you +1 to all saving throws against spells for every 5 ranks in it, so you should definitely max it.  

You will absolutely need these spells: Mage Armor, Protection from Alignment, Cat's Grace, Ghostly Visage, Bull's Strength, Haste/Mass Haste (unless you are wearing something that gives it), War Cry, Ethereal Visage, and at least one Dispel.  Find Traps, Improved Invisibility and Energy Buffer are also nice.
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Vireyar

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Help with Gnomish Bard
« Reply #2 on: September 01, 2004, 02:40:46 PM »
I'd ignore Use Magic Device completely unless you have an excess of skill points (which probably won't happen, with a 10 int you'll only be getting 4 points a level). Points there also depend on how common class/race/etc. restricted magic items are in Mythos. No sense in investing if the only thing you can use is a wizard-only wand that casts Ray of Frost. As max said, keep your Spellcraft high. Saving throws against all spells is very handy.

As your spells are mostly buffs with a few sonic-based attack spells, I'd ignore any Spell Focus feats unless you are multiclassing, in which case the small DC bonus might come in handy (but probably it won't). And since you look like you plan on staying out of melee as much as possible, you might be able to skimp on Concentration a little. Keep Cat's Grace up as often as you can in combat situations to help boost your damage; Cat's Grace potions will also come in handy.

Wear light armour or clothing to avoid any arcane spell failure at a critical time, such as when you're getting beaten senseless and need to escape.

As max said (again), you get an experience penalty in combat for summoned creatures and familiars. I would use either a summon or a familiar, and not both, unless you really need tanks badly. An advantage to this is that if your summoned creature gets killed, you can still fall back on summoning your familiar to help out.
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BubbleTough

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Help with Gnomish Bard
« Reply #3 on: September 01, 2004, 02:50:31 PM »
Quote from: "maxbeedo"
Because Bards require a lot more physical damage than Sorcs/Wizards, I took a few levels in Rogue so I had some sneak attack bonuses (which apply a lot more than they should), plus you get a lot more skill pts in rogue skills.


Only problem with this is I'm not sure why this Bard would have Rogue levels, I have to roleplay on Mythos so if it doesn't fit the character then I probably shouldn't do it. Although if this were SP, it would be a completely different matter as my Ranger archer, Orion, has a few points in Rogue for the sneak attack.

A good tip about the merc/familiars/summons, I thought that penalty only applied to merc.

I'd still like to know what other feats to take besides the ones I outlined. Dodge, Mobility, Toughness?
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Sssith

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Help with Gnomish Bard
« Reply #4 on: September 01, 2004, 03:05:46 PM »
How about you are not the best performing barb and have trouble making ends meet?  You don't want to starve and you don't see the harm of using items that other wise would go unused.  I mean everyone needs to survive....  

:)

Does that work for you?

Pixelated

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Help with Gnomish Bard
« Reply #5 on: September 01, 2004, 05:28:51 PM »
Quote from: "Vireyar"
I'd ignore Use Magic Device completely unless you have an excess of skill points (which probably won't happen, with a 10 int you'll only be getting 4 points a level). Points there also depend on how common class/race/etc. restricted magic items are in Mythos.


As a Mythos DM I can assure you that UMD is a Must-Have skill for any rogue or bard. Nearly every non-standard magic item (i.e. not +1 or +2) is class/race/alignment restricted.

Quote
Keep Cat's Grace up as often as you can in combat situations to help boost your damage; Cat's Grace potions will also come in handy.


It will improve your hitting, but will have zero effect on your damage, despite what the very confused V-something says. ;)

Quote
As max said (again), you get an experience penalty in combat for summoned creatures and familiars. I would use either a summon or a familiar, and not both, unless you really need tanks badly. An advantage to this is that if your summoned creature gets killed, you can still fall back on summoning your familiar to help out.


You might get an experience penalty, but this IS Mythos we're talking about - unless you are partied up (and thus don't need familiars/summons) then you are mincemeat without them. Use them, love them, be their buddies.

Feats: Dodge and Toughness. Both are hugely useful. Mobility? No. Not even a little bit.

Frankly, with a gnomish bard you're setting yourself up for a very painful time of things... but kudos to you if you can pull it off. And of course, you'll be in very limited company (I suspect this character idea was born of the recent Mythos race and class polls that showed a shortage of both gnomes and bards - of course, there's a reason for that: they suck :P).

Best tip: Have fun! :D


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BubbleTough

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Help with Gnomish Bard
« Reply #6 on: September 01, 2004, 06:08:54 PM »
Quote from: "Luchaire"
(I suspect this character idea was born of the recent Mythos race and class polls that showed a shortage of both gnomes and bards - of course, there's a reason for that: they suck :P).


Haha, how'd you know, that obvious? :P

Well, can't be anymore difficult than Dave LaFeat *cough*
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Vireyar

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Help with Gnomish Bard
« Reply #7 on: September 01, 2004, 06:41:20 PM »
It will improve your hitting, but will have zero effect on your damage, despite what the very confused V-something says. ;)

If I'm confused it's from you calling me something different every time you post and from reading the 36 Sermons :P
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BubbleTough

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Help with Gnomish Bard
« Reply #8 on: September 07, 2004, 09:03:41 AM »
I'm still working out this build, and there are two ways I'm thinking of taking it.

1. max's suggestions, using Sssith's advice. I was forced to leave the village as I did not want to become a Wizard, Gnome Bards are more of a novelty than anything else so I was forced to make ends meet through other avenues. Something of that sort.

2. Make him multi-class with an Arcane Archer. This wouldn't be for powergame reasons, just survival reasons :P The Arcane Archer levels would reflect the influence his Wizard kin had on him. Something of that sort...

Any other suggestions?
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SirWarkof

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Help with Gnomish Bard
« Reply #9 on: September 07, 2004, 09:36:04 AM »
Arcane Archer class is resricted to Elf-types.

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BubbleTough

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Help with Gnomish Bard
« Reply #10 on: September 07, 2004, 09:43:10 AM »
Damn Elves. Get to have all the fun.
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