Author Topic: Starcraft 2  (Read 10710 times)

Kasferatu

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Re: Starcraft 2
« Reply #120 on: March 19, 2013, 08:41:36 AM »
I've completed HotS and found it very disappointing.  The cutscenes were fantastic as always, but the missions were fairly uninspiring and almost always had some form of timer mechanic that meant you couldn't really enjoy them at your own pace.  I'm not sure why it took them three years to develop given how short it was, and it certainly doesn't justify its price tag.

It's a shame really, I'm a huge fan of Blizzards 'craft' games and I enjoyed Wings of Liberty.  I don't know how they fucked it up so badly.

maxbeedo

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Re: Starcraft 2
« Reply #121 on: March 19, 2013, 09:15:30 AM »
Yeah, I had heard from several people that it was disappointing so I will wait until it's cheaper.

The giant patches that came out before HOTS performed a lot of that optimization, I noticed a big difference after the 4+ GB patch, load times are twice as fast, etc., but they apply to WOL as well.
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Thrugg

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Re: Starcraft 2
« Reply #122 on: March 19, 2013, 09:17:38 AM »
Blizzard is in their monetising phase now, becoming EA.  They aren't getting another dime from me.  The whole thing makes me terribly sad.
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Kasferatu

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Re: Starcraft 2
« Reply #123 on: March 19, 2013, 09:34:08 AM »
I agree Thrugg.  They used to be my favourite developer, but they have massively fallen from grace - especially since the merger with Activision.

Beorach

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Re: Starcraft 2
« Reply #124 on: March 19, 2013, 10:03:47 AM »
Thanks for the heads up.  I just ordered SC2 for $17 from Newegg recently but it hasn't arrived yet.  I can't wait to have all my supply depots nuked to remind me of the original's learning curve.  Any newbie tips would be appreciated.  I suppose I can look back on this thread and the interwebz for a Cliff's Notes of sorts on each race/faction/whatever there is now...  If my boys like it, I figure I'll locate a copy of the original somewhere to "spawn" a LAN party.
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Corpsie

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Re: Starcraft 2
« Reply #125 on: March 19, 2013, 12:13:49 PM »
I found HoTS really good O.o, The missions were a little bit gimmicky in the sense of it was not really based on building a base + Army, it was more focusing on Kerrigan as a hero unit with a army as back up. Still I found it really good, and the new training missions and feedback the game gives you for multiplayer is a huger help in getting you started into ladder games. The Cinematics were probably the best I have ever seen in a Blizzard game. I thought the evolution missions provided tough choices and I loved all the rpg elements in changing the units around etc.

maxbeedo

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Re: Starcraft 2
« Reply #126 on: March 19, 2013, 08:03:40 PM »
Thanks for the heads up.  I just ordered SC2 for $17 from Newegg recently but it hasn't arrived yet.  I can't wait to have all my supply depots nuked to remind me of the original's learning curve.  Any newbie tips would be appreciated.  I suppose I can look back on this thread and the interwebz for a Cliff's Notes of sorts on each race/faction/whatever there is now...  If my boys like it, I figure I'll locate a copy of the original somewhere to "spawn" a LAN party.

The styles of each race haven't changed all that much.  Terrans are still scrappy since they can build anywhere and move their buildings around.  Zerg still focus on macro and generating a whole bunch of units.  Protoss still make expensive but powerful units. 

Basic Strategy:
Terran - The SC1 build order of Barracks->Factory->Starport is still there. 
Zerg - It used to be in SC1 that you would have to build extra hatcheries just to get extra larva, but Queens (now a ground-based defensive/caster unit) can inject larva into the hatcheries so that isn't necessary anymore.  Otherwise the build order is also very similar to SC1, Spawning Pool first, then you need to upgrade the Hatchery to a Lair and then to a Hive to get the higher end units.
Protoss - Again, very similar build, Gateways first, then Cybernetics Core, then you are able to build most of the top-end buildings from there.
All races - Build at least 2 workers for every mineral patch and 3 for every gas.  Workers are actually intelligent in SC2, mineral workers will automatically move around the patches to harvest them somewhat equally, so you can leave a Rally Point from your Command Center/Hatchery/Nexus on one mineral patch while you're making workers and they'll start harvesting right away from any unused or lesser used patches.  Hatcheries can have 2 Rally Points, one for workers and one for everything else so there's no confusion there.

As far as more complex strategies, the most common builds for each race from all the matches I've watched are:
Terran - MMM deathball, Marines+Marauders+Medivacs.  All the units are ranged so they clump up together and annihilate anything that comes near them and get healed by the Medivacs (or dropped off in an opponent's base by them).  Vulnerable to good AOE damage strategies like Protoss Colossi or High Templar's Psionic Storm, or Zerg Infestors' Fungal Growth, but those take longer to get than the deathball so it remains effective.
Terran - Mech, focusing on Factory units (Hellions, Hellbats, Widow Mines, Siege Tanks, Thors).  Pretty solid combination against a variety of ground units, most of these units can't attack air though, although Hellions and Widow Mines can sneak into enemy bases and wipe out all their workers pretty efficiently.  This is more prevalent in HOTS games due to the addition of Hellbats and Widow Mines.
Zerg - Macro build (fast expand).  Focus solely on using Queens and Spine Crawlers for defense for a while as you build a whole bunch of drones on 3-5 bases and get more than enough money to max out your supply cap on whatever army composition you want instantaneously.  Technically any race can do a decent Macro build but zerg can produce workers the fastest so I see it more often from them. 
Zerg - Roaches/Hydralisk deathball.  Roaches have good HP for their cost and can tank a lot of the damage and you can burrow them to quickly regenerate, while the Hydralisks do most of the DPS in the back row since they have slightly higher range.  Just making a whole bunch of these 2 units is enough to beat most opponents unless they are saturated with Siege Tanks, Colossi or have too many air units for the number of Hydras you have.
Protoss - 4 gate build.  Make 4 Gateways (or more if you have more money), research Warp Gate tech, build Pylons and/or Warp Prisms wherever you need units and have the capability of warping in units instantly for attacks or defense. 
Protoss - Superfleet.  With the 2 new Stargate units in HOTS, the protoss can now viably go straight for Stargates and focus on building a diverse, powerful fleet.  Void Rays have been nerfed a bit in HOTS (arguably the most overpowered unit in WOL), but Phoenixes and Tempests along with Carriers are enough to destroy most armies, especially with a Mothership to back them up.  Oracles and Phoenixes can be used for harassment.

The higher level players tend to adapt a lot more though and try to counter what the opponent is doing, which requires good scouting.  Terran players like to build extra Command Centers in their first base and give them the sensor upgrade for scanning and/or summoning more Mules to mine minerals faster (SCVs gather 5 minerals per trip, Mules gather 30), and they can then later move that CC to a new base.  Zerg spread their Overlords around, or have Overseers use Changelings for as long as they don't get noticed, creep tumors are also good for map vision.  Protoss have Observers, and Stalkers w/Blink are relatively fast/diverse scouts in the early game.

Most units do different amounts of damage to different units types, just like in SC1, so it makes it fairly obvious which units are "hard counters" to which others as every unit is clearly labeled what "tags" they have.  Immortals, for example, do 20 damage to normal units but 50 damage to Armored units, so it does crazy good damage to Siege Tanks, Marauders, Roaches, Stalkers, etc.., but can easily get swarmed by Zerglings or Marines that it gets no bonus on since they aren't "armored".  Various units do bonus damage to "biological", "psionic", "light" or "massive".

Biggest tip for each race:
Terran - Wall off your base using your buildings.  Your supply depots can be sunk into the ground so they won't block your units when you want to leave, and you can always lift off the other buildings (most of them anyway).  The Terrans can't adapt as quickly as other races so this is necessary to protect against rushes, and your SCVs can repair while they buildings are being shot at.
Zerg - Don't forget to inject Larva using your Queens constantly, as this is what lets you generate an army faster than the other races.  Build multiple queens if you wish as they are versatile defenders (excellent anti-air, transfuse can heal your defense buildings or other units, plus they create creep tumors to make your army faster and give good vision).
Protoss - Warp Gate tech is essential in most games.  It lets you create Gateway units in 5 seconds instead of 40-ish with a 15-second or so cooldown, so you can create Zealots/Stalkers/Sentries/Dark Templar/High Templar twice as fast as normal and can make them ANYWHERE you have Pylon power or a Warp Prism.  I didn't use it for a while when I first started because I never made enough Probes to generate enough money to need to create units that fast, but now that I know how to run my economy it's extremely useful.
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Beorach

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Re: Starcraft 2
« Reply #127 on: March 20, 2013, 06:09:33 AM »
That's awesome.  Thanks very much for sharing, Max.
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lemming

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Re: Starcraft 2
« Reply #128 on: March 21, 2013, 01:36:08 AM »
TL does not sound impressed with the plot of HotS. This critique just happens to be better-written than most.

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=404043

(spoilers etc)

synuclein

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Re: Starcraft 2
« Reply #129 on: March 21, 2013, 11:17:53 AM »
TL...

jebus christ. high expectations much? agree [edited to cut out spoilers] about some of the mission elements, but otherwise, that went beyond nitpicking.
« Last Edit: March 21, 2013, 11:22:54 AM by synuclein »
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maxbeedo

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Re: Starcraft 2
« Reply #130 on: April 16, 2013, 12:59:03 AM »
Bought HotS when I saw it on sale, played it for about 4 hours and I've completed 12 of the 20 story missions already (plus 4 evolution missions).  Holy crap is the game short...  And I still don't have access to Corruptors, Infestors, Ultralisks, Brood Lords, Vipers or Overseers, so there will have to be a bunch more missions to introduce those.

There's also a very annoying audio bug where in every cutscene, one line from a character will repeat endlessly, over and over, superimposed over all other audio until I start a mission (going to a different section of the ship doesn't fix it).  That's with all updates downloaded.

Some of the upgrade choices are quite interesting, but it doesn't look like I'll get any missions to really try them out except for the last one.  The levels are quite gimmicky and don't give you much opportunity to really macro-up and bludgeon the AI with your superior economy (nearly every level can be beaten without creating a single building of any kind on Normal, even if you have access to other units you never need them).
Currently playing: King of Fighters XIV, ME3 MP (PS3), Bloodborne, Life is Strange
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"Terrific, I'm about to get killed a million miles from nowhere with a gung-ho iguana who tells me to relax." ----The Last Starfighter
"Has anyone ever tried to kill you before?" "Yes, but I defend myself with my superior wit and guile." ----Sports Night

maxbeedo

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Re: Starcraft 2
« Reply #131 on: April 17, 2013, 11:01:01 AM »
Well that was quick.  I guess the tried and true strategy of mass roaches+hydralisks still works, especially with the unique upgrades you can give them in the campaign.  Vile Roaches + Adaptive Plating = super tanks, even with their lower HP (the vile upgrade slows enemy attack/movement speed by 75%, adaptive plating gives them +3 armor when below 50% health).  You are pretty much forced to use ground forces though because they never give you access to Corruptors, and you have to CHOOSE between Brood Lords and Vipers, and even with upgrades Mutalisks aren't very useful except in harassment.  You can't "harass" the enemy when they, like most missions, essentially start with infinite resources and nearly every mission is on a very strict timer to force you to finish it quickly.  The campaign could've been at least 3-5 missions longer, to give you time to play with all the evolution options in different scenarios, instead of giving you an upgrade mission, and as soon as you complete it you'll have, at best, one mission to use your new upgrade before all the missions after it require a new gimmick/unit.  This would've been better as a tutorial for the multiplayer, but, of course, 80% of what is used in the campaign isn't in the MP.

Without knowing what they were I got about 70% of the achievements on the first try, although there are still goals to meet on Hard difficulty. 

Currently playing: King of Fighters XIV, ME3 MP (PS3), Bloodborne, Life is Strange
http://psnprofiles.com/maxbeedo
"Terrific, I'm about to get killed a million miles from nowhere with a gung-ho iguana who tells me to relax." ----The Last Starfighter
"Has anyone ever tried to kill you before?" "Yes, but I defend myself with my superior wit and guile." ----Sports Night

synuclein

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Re: Starcraft 2
« Reply #132 on: September 13, 2015, 04:43:40 PM »
i love this: expansion cinematic

release announced (nov 10th).
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Jazz

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Re: Starcraft 2
« Reply #133 on: December 20, 2015, 07:20:50 AM »
So, I'm not thrilled with the new interface.  Went into MP to make a custom game vs AI, and I can't find any of my old favorite maps to play.  Unchecked the "Ladder Maps" button and get a whirly of lockup circle like its trying to figure out why anyone would want to play non-ladder.

Any thoughts or help?
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