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The Scrying Chamber => Bioware Games => Topic started by: Timinator on December 25, 2012, 02:12:07 AM

Title: So I finally bought KOTOR 1 and 2
Post by: Timinator on December 25, 2012, 02:12:07 AM
Also picked up the tomb raider games.  Where should I put these games on the list of games to start?  I see some of you have put 50 hours into some (according to steam)
Title: Re: So I finally bought KOTOR 1 and 2
Post by: Tarr on December 25, 2012, 04:45:32 AM
KOTOR is a masterpiece if you can get the hang of the older engine. If you played NWN you'll feel right at home.
Title: Re: So I finally bought KOTOR 1 and 2
Post by: Thrugg on December 25, 2012, 08:00:13 AM
I actually played KotOR first and liked the system so much it got me into NWN and other 4th ed games.

KotOR 1 is definitely better put together than 2, although 2 has more "stuff" and is slightly more modernised.  Should definitely play 1 first (though that is probably obvious).  A first play through is probably around 25-30 hours.  If you haven't played a 4th ed game before then I would recommend one of the character build threads in the Bioware forum just to get you going.
There's no character carry over from 1 to 2, you are necessarily a different person in the second one for story reasons.  Skills are more important in the second one but after a play through 1 you will have the hang of the system and be good to go with 2.

Tomb Raider games aren't really my thing I'm afraid.
Title: Re: So I finally bought KOTOR 1 and 2
Post by: Timinator on December 25, 2012, 11:25:53 AM
Never touched nvn
Title: Re: So I finally bought KOTOR 1 and 2
Post by: Melchior on December 25, 2012, 06:07:48 PM
I enjoyed Kotor 1 immensely and have the box on my shelf. However I tried to play it on Win7 and it was just...funky. Resolution was difficult to make work, mouse accuracy was off and had weird lag and hangups all the time. I eventually gave up.

Good game though, hopefully the Steam version works nicely. I wish there was better support for adding games you own to steam and being able to download them, but I dont think this game even has a serial.
Title: Re: So I finally bought KOTOR 1 and 2
Post by: Pixelated on December 25, 2012, 06:43:12 PM
KOTOR 1 was awesome. I never could get into KOTOR 2 but most other people seem to love it. No idea how well either one runs on current hardware, though. I'm doubtful they do well unless you bought them from GOG.

The only Tomb Raiders I've played were the last few - Anniversary (which was just a remake of one of the first ones), Legend, and Underworld. Except I played them out of order because that's the order I bought them. :lol: Underworld was quite a lot of fun but had the usual platform-game-bullshit-parts that require you to have two controllers and three arms to succeed. Still, I did like it enough to buy the other two. Can't bring myself to buy older ones  than that, though. The tragically outdated graphics are just too much of a put-off.

Overall, I'd say play KOTOR 1, then 2 (assuming they run playably), then either do the last three TR's in order or just skip straight to Underworld and watch the  "previously on..." intro videos that explain everything that happened in the preceding games. Or  torture yourself and just play the entire TR series. In order. Uninterrupted. :D



Title: Re: So I finally bought KOTOR 1 and 2
Post by: Thrugg on December 25, 2012, 08:03:27 PM
I've had no problems running Kotor 1 or 2 on Win 7 x64, either my box copies or the Steam copies i bought because I am too lazy to open my box copies >.>

From memory with the box copy I had to run it in XP compatibility mode but the Steam version worked straight up.  Your resolution choices won't be great for the first one, and no widescreen res so everybody looks a bit fat if you play full screen.
Title: Re: So I finally bought KOTOR 1 and 2
Post by: Kasferatu on December 26, 2012, 05:57:11 AM
I loved TR:Anniversary.  The only other ones I played were the very first two... which are definitely dated now!
Title: Re: So I finally bought KOTOR 1 and 2
Post by: Mad Godji on December 27, 2012, 02:01:10 PM
KotOR is great, but it' been years since I came back to it, no idea how dated it would feel now. If you're looking for builds and mechanics advice, I would be hard pressed to answer from the top of my head but I'm pretty sure you can find some heated debate  with Lego about dual-wielding versus sabertaff and the mechanics of flurry in the Bioware forum too :)
Title: Re: So I finally bought KOTOR 1 and 2
Post by: Butch on December 27, 2012, 02:13:45 PM
I played through the original KotOR three times.  Once as pure good, once as mostly bad, and once trying to toe the line down the middle.  I don't recall all that much but I do know three things:
1) Force powers ("Willpower" maybe) are very powerful.
2) Go to Korriban last.  You can do the planets in any order, but the story just flows better if you do the Sith homeworld last IMHO.
3) HK-47 is pure awesome. 
Title: Re: So I finally bought KOTOR 1 and 2
Post by: Pixelated on December 27, 2012, 02:26:52 PM
3) HK-47 is pure awesome.

That should have been #1.
Title: Re: So I finally bought KOTOR 1 and 2
Post by: Mad Godji on December 27, 2012, 02:36:22 PM
Checkling the older posts of the forums, I can't actually find a good post with all informations and no spoilers, so very basic, general tups :

-Don't take more than 8 levels of your first class. You may get enough experience to level beyond, but wait until you unlock the new set of classes. SOme combinations work better with 7/13, but I'd be hard pressed to remember why now. I think consulars had some kind of nice feat level 13, that might be why 7/13 made more sense with them, but meh.
-Consular are much, much more fun as Dark Side characers (mostly because of Kill and Force Lightning).
-For a melee based-character, while soldier might seem like the obvious choice, scoundrel can actually be much better : many Jedi powers disable enemies, opening them for sneak attacks.
-Jedis get some automatic, undocumented finesse feat with lightsabers. Your to-hit chance is automatically the best of dex or str, making purely-dex builsds absolutely viable (and probably better for robed jedis, AC bonus being much more important than the tiny damage).

Ah, I found what our debate with Lego actually was : this heretic wanted to put Armor on Jedis (which severely restricts the use of some powers). Don't listen to him : Jedis are all about diabling enmies before they even get a chance to hit. Not being hit = not needing huge armor, which given it restricts your max dex bonus won't even give yo much more AC. So if despite all common sense you really want to go that way, go for a str-based char. (Maybe soldier sentinel, I don't know, that was Lego's specialty).


Single saber vs saberstaff vs two sabers : For a melee-based character, go with dual-wielding (and associated feats), for a power class, go with single saber (and the dueling feat). Two sabers tend to be vastly superior to saberstaff, the reason being more crystals to put in your sabers, and better crit chance (saberstaff initially only crit on 20, sabers on 19-20, and once buffed you can basically crit with almost 25% chance, + the automatic crits/sneak on diabled enemies). If you really want to play saberstaff a la Darth-maul, go for a Lego build : armored, Str-based build.

Power attack versus flurry : I was a big fan of flurry (at max level, with dual wielding, you basically got to 5 attacks per round, power-attack is hard pressed to top that), single saber power attack becomes more viable though flurry still isn't a bad choice.

Force wave is insanely broken.

If you need more precise ideas about builds, I'll need to quickly re-install the game to re-open my saves, but that's all I could find in 15 minutes browsing the old threads for spoiler-free info.
Title: Re: So I finally bought KOTOR 1 and 2
Post by: Darkness on December 28, 2012, 02:16:25 AM
3) HK-47 is pure awesome.

That should have been #1.

What else would you expect from a meatbag?
Title: Re: So I finally bought KOTOR 1 and 2
Post by: Pixelated on December 30, 2012, 06:53:01 AM
I've had no problems running Kotor 1 or 2 on Win 7 x64, either my box copies or the Steam copies i bought because I am too lazy to open my box copies >.>

Thanks to this post and the fact that it's up for community vote right now I suddenly have the urge to play KOTOR 1 again because awesome.

Damn you. Damn you and your wily subliminal ways. Damn you straight to gaming hell.

:evil:
Title: Re: So I finally bought KOTOR 1 and 2
Post by: Thrugg on December 30, 2012, 08:55:46 AM
Perhaps you can write an Armoured Scout/Sentinel guide.
Title: Re: So I finally bought KOTOR 1 and 2
Post by: Timinator on December 30, 2012, 11:39:16 AM
You might all have played again before i start. You can thank me later
Title: Re: So I finally bought KOTOR 1 and 2
Post by: Tarr on December 31, 2012, 12:21:28 AM
I could write a "I kicked this whole game's ass while only finding one encounter particularly difficult the entire way  on hardcore rules" guide but damned if I remember what classes I was playing.  Combat oriented, I know.
Title: Re: So I finally bought KOTOR 1 and 2
Post by: Melchior on December 31, 2012, 12:25:10 AM
No challenge = no fun.
I demand you play an underpowered class!
Title: Re: So I finally bought KOTOR 1 and 2
Post by: JoshC77 on December 31, 2012, 07:21:27 AM
God I love these two games.....

I would seriously not even worry about what builds are good or bad or optimizing this, that, or the other.  Pick a class that fits your personality, pick a play style that fits your style, and choose whichever alignment appeals to you.  After that, go have fun and enjoy the stories.  You can worry about optimization after your first play through (you WILL play it multiple times...and that is no Jedi mind trick, just a fact). 

The beauty of this series is that you have freedom to make choices....I had a KOTOR 1 character that was completely light-side right up until the very end...very poignant fall.  I have had evil bastards and total paragons....all can be fun in their own way.

One final thing, I have read a lot of great things about the Sith Lords Restored Content Mod for KOTOR 2. KOTOR 2 has a lot of content missing in the final released version as Bioware rushed it out the door.  As such, the factory game feels a bit shallow in places.  The modding community has been able to restore most of the missing content from unused files on the game disk.  I have yet to play through this, but am going to soon as I haven't played KOTOR 2 in about a year; it is time for my yearly dose :)

Edit:  here is the link

http://www.moddb.com/mods/the-sith-lords-restored-content-mod-tslrcm (http://www.moddb.com/mods/the-sith-lords-restored-content-mod-tslrcm)

Title: Re: So I finally bought KOTOR 1 and 2
Post by: narsica on December 31, 2012, 10:58:14 AM
KOTOR 2 has a lot of content missing in the final released version as Obsidian rushed it out the door. 

Fixed.
Title: Re: So I finally bought KOTOR 1 and 2
Post by: JoshC77 on January 01, 2013, 03:07:02 PM
KOTOR 2 has a lot of content missing in the final released version as Obsidian rushed it out the door. 

Fixed.

Oops.......:D
Title: Re: So I finally bought KOTOR 1 and 2
Post by: Kasferatu on January 02, 2013, 09:47:49 AM
I was under the impression they were forced to rush it out of the door by the publisher... they take a lot of flak for this one!
Title: Re: So I finally bought KOTOR 1 and 2
Post by: Terrorphile on January 02, 2013, 12:11:31 PM
So all this damn talk about KotOR has made me want to get the game... Would it be better to buy through Steam or through GOG to guarantee compatibility?
Title: Re: So I finally bought KOTOR 1 and 2
Post by: Timinator on January 02, 2013, 12:27:46 PM
Geez, it may be some months before I finally get into this.  It seems starting this thread was like taking the top off an old wound and watching what comes out! (in a nice way)
Title: Re: So I finally bought KOTOR 1 and 2
Post by: Tarr on January 02, 2013, 12:48:18 PM
So all this damn talk about KotOR has made me want to get the game... Would it be better to buy through Steam or through GOG to guarantee compatibility?

Whichever's cheaper. It's an XP era game so should work fine on whatever.
Title: Re: So I finally bought KOTOR 1 and 2
Post by: Timinator on January 02, 2013, 12:56:35 PM
Can't always guarantee that, there are all sorts of weird things that can creep in, maybe not here but others.
Title: Re: So I finally bought KOTOR 1 and 2
Post by: Tarr on January 02, 2013, 01:00:48 PM
For the most part, it's true. Besides, both GOG and Steam go a long way in ensuring compatibility.
Title: Re: So I finally bought KOTOR 1 and 2
Post by: maxbeedo on January 02, 2013, 01:14:25 PM
KOTOR 1 and 2 had some of the best voice talent in the industry.  Some of these people were pretty busy before them (Ed Asner for example), but you could easily argue everyone else who did these games were catapulted to A-status voice-acting-wise (and sometimes live-action).

Jennifer Hale as Bastila Shan - Has since been FemShep in all 3 Mass Effect games, Samus Aran in Metroid Prime 3, Naomi Hunter in various Metal Gear games, Leah in Diablo 3, etc.
Courtenay Taylor as Juhani - Has since been Jack in Mass Effect 2 and 3, a bunch of characters in Fallout: New Vegas, etc.
Catherine Taber as Mission Vao - Has since been Penelo in Final Fantasy XII, Princess Leia and Padme Amidala in pretty much every Star Wars game and cartoon, etc.
Kevin Michael Anderson as Jolee Bindo - Has since been The Shredder in the newest TMNT series, Cleveland Brown Jr. in The Cleveland Show, Principal Lewis in American Dad, and a bazillion other cartoons
Raphael Sbarge as Carth Onasi - Has since been Jiminy Cricket/Archie Hopper in Once Upon a Time, Kaidan Alenko in all Mass Effect games, etc.

While looking some of this up I saw a bunch of other connections I never would've made.  Like Kelly Hu who played Visas Marr, was the main girl in Surf Ninjas, and was Lady Deathstrike in X-men 2.
Title: Re: So I finally bought KOTOR 1 and 2
Post by: Pixelated on January 02, 2013, 02:04:07 PM
Jennifer Hale (my favoritest voice actress, btw) had a solid career going long before KOTOR. Just sayin'.

The rest of the crew, yeah. You're probably right. Dunno, never heard of most of them then or now. :lol:
Title: Re: So I finally bought KOTOR 1 and 2
Post by: Pixelated on January 02, 2013, 02:27:44 PM
Also, DAMN STEAM for making this a daily and crushing what little resistance I had left. DAMN THEM!

:lol:
Title: Re: So I finally bought KOTOR 1 and 2
Post by: Terrorphile on January 02, 2013, 02:42:44 PM
Also, DAMN STEAM for making this a daily and crushing what little resistance I had left. DAMN THEM!

:lol:

It's a daily today??
Title: Re: So I finally bought KOTOR 1 and 2
Post by: Pixelated on January 02, 2013, 02:43:47 PM
KOTOR 1 for $2.49
KOTOR 2 for $2.49

The bastards!
Title: Re: So I finally bought KOTOR 1 and 2
Post by: Terrorphile on January 02, 2013, 02:46:42 PM
KOTOR 1 for $2.49
KOTOR 2 for $2.49

The bastards!

Luckily I'm going home soon lol. Cha-ching!
Title: Re: So I finally bought KOTOR 1 and 2
Post by: Pixelated on January 02, 2013, 02:48:07 PM
I only have $2.82 left in my Steam wallet...

:lookaround:
Title: Re: So I finally bought KOTOR 1 and 2
Post by: maxbeedo on January 02, 2013, 07:08:38 PM
Does the steam version of KOTOR 1 include the Yavin 4 DLC?  I didn't see it anywhere in the description and seem to remember it not coming with the original game (although it did come on the Mac version that came out later).
Title: Re: So I finally bought KOTOR 1 and 2
Post by: Pixelated on January 02, 2013, 07:11:16 PM
Random person on Bioware forum says yes the steam version includes it. YMMV. :P

Edit: also confirmed here by random person: http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1919139
Title: Re: So I finally bought KOTOR 1 and 2
Post by: Tarr on January 03, 2013, 04:43:20 AM
I don't remember seeing Yavin 4, but then I may have just missed something.
Title: Re: So I finally bought KOTOR 1 and 2
Post by: Thrugg on January 03, 2013, 08:22:15 AM
Yavin is automatically in the PC version of the game.  Only console users who got to play the game months earlier had to download it.
Title: Re: So I finally bought KOTOR 1 and 2
Post by: Kasferatu on January 03, 2013, 09:02:43 AM
Thanks guys. Thanks for FORCING me to buy these on steam :D
Title: Re: So I finally bought KOTOR 1 and 2
Post by: Pixelated on January 03, 2013, 02:37:19 PM
Bought KOTOR1 last night. Someone else gifted me KOTOR2.

Started 1. Realized I had completely forgotten everything about character builds and shit. Picked a scoundrel and half-assed the stats/feats choices.

Then watched the game proceed to CTD trying to load the startup.

*grumble*

I hate troubleshooting all the tricks to making old games work on modern hardware.
Title: Re: So I finally bought KOTOR 1 and 2
Post by: Pixelated on January 03, 2013, 03:20:26 PM
Fixed.

So now I just have an annoying issue where using the Steam Overlay  causes the game to stop accepting mouse or KB input until I alt-tab out/in (which sort of, like, defeats the point of the overlay :lol: ).

Hmph.
Title: Re: So I finally bought KOTOR 1 and 2
Post by: Melchior on January 03, 2013, 03:35:31 PM
You're too spoiled by games that work all the time. Play FO3 more to lower your standards to "CTDs every 10mins".
Title: Re: So I finally bought KOTOR 1 and 2
Post by: Pixelated on January 03, 2013, 04:16:00 PM
:lol: I never had that problem with FO3. Or Oblivion. Neither one ever crashed on me. But I was also brutally meticulous about dissecting every mod and re-assembling it to work with all my other mods so everything was as seamless and conflict-free as if it shipped that way. Otherwise, yeah, mod conflicts will bork things fast.
Title: Re: So I finally bought KOTOR 1 and 2
Post by: Melchior on January 03, 2013, 05:06:49 PM
Oh heck yeah.
I've been crashing a ton these past two days...though I don't know why, since I didn't make any changes.

I actually suspect my GFX card is dying, I have had several black screen lockups and such lately in different games :(
Under warranty still, but the turnaround is weeks.

/hijack

Title: Re: So I finally bought KOTOR 1 and 2
Post by: Pixelated on January 03, 2013, 05:22:57 PM
If you weren't on the wrong side of the planet, I could send you a loaner GPU til yours is replaced.
Title: Re: So I finally bought KOTOR 1 and 2
Post by: Melchior on January 03, 2013, 05:45:52 PM
That is a very generous offer Luch.
Unfortunately, I am on the "wrong" (or right) side of the planet ;) and I'm also on a laptop, so there's that too.

Thanks all the same though :D
Title: Re: So I finally bought KOTOR 1 and 2
Post by: maxbeedo on January 13, 2013, 08:18:59 PM
How nice, an unskippable game-crashing bug at a very specific spot in the steam version of KOTOR, every time, no matter which save I use.  Fun times.
Title: Re: So I finally bought KOTOR 1 and 2
Post by: Thrugg on January 13, 2013, 10:05:51 PM
Is it at a cutscene max?  For wacky reasons they are using about 5 different old file types for their movies and almost everybody runs into one that their modern machine doesn't remember how to play.  You may be able to disable them in the options but you certainly can in the .INI file if not.
Title: Re: So I finally bought KOTOR 1 and 2
Post by: maxbeedo on January 13, 2013, 10:44:18 PM
Yeah, I would assume it's the cutscene immediately after the Leviathan where the remaining characters talk about the events, just after beating the mandatory turret-shooting game during the escape.  Tried it 3 times and it immediately quit out each time.  The movies themselves run fine, this appears to be triggered upon trying to load the conversation scene.
Title: Re: So I finally bought KOTOR 1 and 2
Post by: maxbeedo on January 14, 2013, 09:38:27 PM
Figured out a way around it.  I had been dealing with a random constant bug where my main character won't be able to move around except when there is an object to interact with or enemy to fight, and he had been consistently getting stuck after fighting Malak but before walking out the door, so Carth had to be the one that walked out to trigger the escape, but apparently if you have Carth walk out the door, the little cutscene that plays showing your character running to the Ebon Hawk won't show Carth because he gets stuck somewhere, and the game will crash when loading the next scene (walking out the door with your character results in both characters showing up in the cutscene and the game procedes normally). 
Title: Re: So I finally bought KOTOR 1 and 2
Post by: Thrugg on January 14, 2013, 10:55:33 PM
The stuck character bug is annoying and I encounter that regularly too.  Sometimes a save/reload will fix it, sometimes having an item to interact with will get your character to move to it and give you control back.
Title: Re: So I finally bought KOTOR 1 and 2
Post by: maxbeedo on January 15, 2013, 11:17:12 PM
I had always taken Carth with me into the Sith Academy before to do the side-quest with his son, but I think the extra dialogue options with Canderous and Jolee are MUCH better. 

Sith Recruit: Do you know how many Sith there are on this planet?
Jolee Bindo: Twelve! No, wait! Thirteen!
Canderous Ordo: Nice one, old man!
Jolee Bindo: What can I say? It takes effort to be properly irreverent at my age.

Also, having not played TOR nor read any of the novels, I was reading through the storylines of Revan and the Jedi Exile and concluded that clearly the current team at Bioware has something against the old teams there and at Obsidian, to so thoroughly ruin their work.  What they came up with doesn't come close to living up to the standards the previous teams had built for those characters.  I hadn't looked into it myself until recently, although many of my friends that played TOR said they were pretty disappointed.  I suppose tragedy is one of the common themes of KOTOR characters, so it might as well ironically apply to the quality of the material.
Title: Re: So I finally bought KOTOR 1 and 2
Post by: Thrugg on January 16, 2013, 08:03:32 AM
It is a running joke in the TOR general chat channel what they did to the Revan story.  Part of it is simply how stories need to be stomped to fit into an MMO structure - there simply isn't room for single great heroes when a million people are all doing the exact same thing at once, and the universe must always be able to grow bigger and stronger.  WoW even had to screw up its own lore several times - and that has been managed by the same few people since the start pretty much - because the mighty raid enemy when level 60 is the cap is suddenly soloable in average gear at level 85.

The flip side is they did a pretty amazing job of re-inventing places like Taris and Nar Shadaa, fleshing out the places from KOTOR with modern graphics and hiding little easter eggs all over the place to amuse fans of the earlier games.
Title: Re: So I finally bought KOTOR 1 and 2
Post by: Mad Godji on January 16, 2013, 08:48:07 AM
I... I know this is masochistic and I'm just going to end up hurting myself, but would you know where I could read the stories of Revan and the Jedi from KotOR 2? As bad as you make it sound like,  need to know :P
Title: Re: So I finally bought KOTOR 1 and 2
Post by: maxbeedo on January 16, 2013, 11:23:21 AM
I mostly just started at wookieepedia, and if I wanted more material I followed the source links from each character's page.

I want to add that how they handle the Revan/Exile story is not the WORST idea I can think of, it's not exactly terrible, but it doesn't live up to the standard, and the defining characteristics of their characters seem to be ignored entirely in the new material and they are treated more or less like "regular jedi". 
Title: Re: So I finally bought KOTOR 1 and 2
Post by: Beorach on January 16, 2013, 01:57:57 PM
I loved the first KOTOR but had trouble with bugs in the second plus it just didn't feel like the game had changed much at all (and certainly not for the better) so I stopped playing it.  I hadn't realized the story was panned, though.  I'd guess Wiki would fill you in well enough or a Gamefaqs trip?  Here's where I'm going to start:
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Star_Wars:_Knights_of_the_Old_Republic_II:_The_Sith_Lords
Title: Re: So I finally bought KOTOR 1 and 2
Post by: maxbeedo on January 19, 2013, 06:15:27 PM
There are some important story elements that need the completion patch to see, but even without that I think the story is still pretty good in 2.  Not as good as KOTOR, but the characterization is still pretty solid, and the dynamic of the relationships between the characters is actually a little better (they seem to have more to say to each other).  If you're thorough a lot of story gaps are filled but a few of the bigger questions like "What made Revan turn to the dark side?" and "Did the Exile ever find Revan?" were never answered until TOR came out, but not in a very satisfying way.  I suppose people should be thankful they referenced Revan and the Exile at all in TOR, but it probably would've been better to leave them out of TOR entirely... or possibly used their story as a focal point of an expansion, which would've been a huge boost for their now-terrible sales.