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The Scrying Chamber => Bioware Games => Topic started by: Butch on May 21, 2010, 02:33:37 PM

Title: Just got Knights of the Old Republic II
Post by: Butch on May 21, 2010, 02:33:37 PM
For $10!  Haha. 

So what do I need to know before installing this thing and firing up my Jedi?  I played, and loved, KotOR.  Played it through as a pure light-side, a pure dark-side, and in the middle.  I'm guessing I can do the same in the sequel?

Any tips on building a light-side Jedi?

Butch
Title: Re: Just got Knights of the Old Republic II
Post by: Pixelated on May 21, 2010, 04:20:20 PM
Sorry, can't help. Never got out of the first area before the game bored me. :lol: (and I was supremely disappointed by that fact, considering that I adored KOTOR1)
Title: Re: Just got Knights of the Old Republic II
Post by: Thrugg on May 22, 2010, 05:05:06 AM
Pay no attention to Mr Grumpypants.  This game has its own different nuances, and maybe isn't quite as slick as K1, but it's well worth the $10.

Character creation is largely the same.  You will be fine to go as whichever alignment you like.  I would say they put a little more emphasis on skills in the sequel so Sentinels really shine (imo of course).  But you would still be fine with the other base classes.  You can switch out your team mates in most places anyway and master hacker T3-M4 is still around.

The first two zones are indeed kind of long, more so than in K1.  I really like the first zone actually, have done it 7 or 8 times.  But I am notorious for preferring new toons over high level ones :)  After you get through those though the game pretty much opens out into the familiar "4 planets, any order" from K1.

Really the biggest difference everyone notices is the new Influence.  The intention was to expand on your relationships with the NPCs on your team, so you can get + and - with them by your actions compared to what they want to do.  In a lot of cases it's fairly obvious, HK-47 likes you murdering, T3-M4 likes you to save the universe.  They don't know what they don't see, so you can even game the system a bit by switching people out right before you do something you know they won't like.  But, there are also frustrations with the system.  Sometimes early on you are forced to group with two people with opposite alignments so no matter what you do you piss off one.  Important thing to remember is that you get plenty of opportunities to fix it - most Influence points are actually gained by long conversations with people back on the ship where you learn their stories - and in the end the game would be completable even if everybody hates you.  There are rewards for making each NPC love you, like +1 Int or Computer skill or something from T3, but if you don't care about power gaming that's no biggie, and if you do care, well, Google up "Kotor 2 Influence Guide" and some ubernerd who took the time to chart every single dialog option will tell you exactly how to max out Influence with everybody :lol:

Save often.  There is more bugs to be sure.  And sometimes you miss an obvious Influence check that you may want to redo just because it is obvious.  You actually can't go too wrong going light side, it's Dark side where the Influence stuff can be annoying.

I think Lego started a character build thread somewhere in this forum, but if not I can pull up some of my builds.  There isn't really a ton of difference, aside from instead of starting as a commoner and learning to be a Jedi, you start as a Jedi and learn to be a Superjedi.  Which is pretty cool.
Title: Re: Just got Knights of the Old Republic II
Post by: Butch on May 22, 2010, 01:26:15 PM
Thanks for the tips.  But considering I played KotOR I at least three years ago I've forgotten about everything.  For my first character I'd like a light-side force user that relies on lightsabers to deal out damage.  I'm thinking either a Guardian/Weapon-master (or marauder) or a Sentinel/Weapon-master.

And if I wanted to go for the same but using force powers more It's be a Consular/Jedi Master (or Sith Lord), right?

That about right?

Butch
Title: Re: Just got Knights of the Old Republic II
Post by: Thrugg on May 22, 2010, 02:38:24 PM
I like to be heavy on skills in K2.  It does cost you a little bit in total power of your character but it just makes the game more fun to play.  Plus you get a lot of exp for doing skill things in game (like unlocking and disarming) so I think you make up for the cost by being higher level sooner.

As a result I usually take Sentinel as my base for a fighting char.  Almost as many feats but way more skills, as well as more class skills (the ones that re cheap to raise) so the extra points go even further.  But if you want to max out your total damage and hit points you would go with a Guardian and just smash all the doors open.

The next decision is typically to be a Str-based or Dex-based fighter.  Str raises weapon damage and also gives you +hit.  Dex raises your armor class but can also be used for +hit if you take the Weapon Finesse feats.  You don't get to use a lightsaber for a while so you end up having to use 2 feats to go Dex-based, one for finesse with regular weaps and one for finesse with sabers.  Fighter types have a lot of feats to go around though so it is a personal choice.  Str hits harder, Dex is more defensive.  I tend to go Str based just because it's simpler, and needs less points spent (which I need for my skills).  A non-skilled pure fighter actually has more points spare to go Dex-based, which is maybe counter-intuitive but that's what you get from a point-spend character system :)

Your CON is your hit points as usual and your INT is your skills.  WIS and CHA are about force powers so they can be left low for a fighter type.  So you end up with these kinds of templates that I use to start my characters:  (STR - DEX - CON - INT - WIS - CHA)

skilled Sentinel: 15-10-14-16-10-10  (I hate to leave anything at 8 even if I won't use it much)
strong Guardian: 16-12-16-10-10-10
finesse Guardian: 15-16-14-10-10-10

There are tons of items that raise stats of course plus you get to add a raw point every 4 levels.

For the skills, you want to take at least 1 point in pretty much everything, just to open up certain options you won't get with 0.  Stealth I skip because the only time its needed you have flunkies to do it for you.  With the 16 Int Sentinel you can pretty much paint the whole sheet with max class skills and 1 in the others, but with the Guardian you have to be more frugal - keep Persuade and Treat Injury up and just try to get a single point into the others.

For feats, you'll certainly want Two Weapon Fighting (whether for dual or double saber) and then your choice of Critical Strike or Flurry for combat.  By the end you can probably max out both but you generally want to go as deep as you can into one before going wide.  You will also probably want Toughness at some point (more HP), Finesse if you are going Dex, and things like Weapon Focus and Specialisation if you can (just for lightsabers though). 
If you go the skilled Sentinel, a nice trick is to also pick up the Class Skill feats, which let you raise the other skills you don't start with for cheap.  If you want to get those, get them early, no point putting points into things at double cost if you can do it at single.  With those picked up you can max out all skills except Stealth and really see the whole game.  But, it does use up feats and Sentinels don't get as many as Guardians.  So when I do that I basically have to pick just one fighting style and stick with it.

That about covers character creation.  Game play tips available on request :)
Title: Re: Just got Knights of the Old Republic II
Post by: Butch on May 23, 2010, 07:03:13 AM
Played for three hours last night getting my character through hopefully most of the first area.  Tried to start it up this morning and it won't start.  The effing game won't start.  ARGH!

Butch
Title: Re: Just got Knights of the Old Republic II
Post by: Thrugg on May 23, 2010, 12:46:28 PM
There are quite a few reasons that may happen :(  Would need to know more about your machine to guess which is yours.  I would start with this one though:

* First, figure out where the .ini is installed. Default is "C:\Program Files\Lucasarts\swkotor(2)\swkotor(2).ini". If its not in that location, then your going to have to do some searching around on the hard drive a bit.
* When you find it, just double-click on the file to open it in Notepad.
* Scroll down the file until you find the Graphics Options
* Under the last line ("last line" as in the last line of the list of entries under "Graphics Options", NOT the last line of "swkotor(2).ini), add "Disable Vertex Buffer Objects=1", without the quotes.
* Goto File, then Save.

Also, if you are on an OS more recent than XP (ie Vista or 7) you should probably run in XP compatibility mode.  That said I have not played it since I was using XP so I'm not sure how much that helps.
Title: Re: Just got Knights of the Old Republic II
Post by: Butch on May 23, 2010, 02:06:06 PM
Well damndest thing.  I came back to the computer later and shut down Firefox and KotOR2 fired right up.  Thanks though.  Hopefully it won't happen again. 

Got on board my ship and we're on the way to Telos. 

Butch
Title: Re: Just got Knights of the Old Republic II
Post by: Butch on May 24, 2010, 10:35:38 AM
Here's the deal.  I want to play through this first time without scoring ANY darkside points.  Then I'd like to play though again wihtout scoring ANY lightside points.  I would like to avoid spoilers if possible but I'd rather some minor spoilers than get mixed up in something dark this time.  So does anyone know a guide that just lists the various side (or main) quests and tells you what they earn you in terms of Light/Dark?

For example, I'm on Telos now and just got asked by some hot thug chick to help kill her boss.  Now, it sure feels dark to me, but killing a major crime boss might not be all evil, right?  And maybe it's necessary to progress the main plot. 

Butch
Title: Re: Just got Knights of the Old Republic II
Post by: Thrugg on May 24, 2010, 11:17:08 AM
Killing your dark master to then take his place is classic dark side behaviour :)  The force is all about means not ends and is not impressed by pragmatism...
But Kotor 2 is a lot about showing that the world is full of shades of grey and you have to work hard to find a purely Light solution to every scenario.  You may be setting yourself a difficult goal first time through, there are some serious catch-22s ahead of you.

To answer your first Q, I haven't seen one.  Some of the quest chain trees get fairly involved, with many interdependencies on what you have already done.  It would be hard for a guide to simply say "Quest X = 1 LS point".

In this case though, assuming you're talking about Luxa and Slusk, you won't be able to progress the main story without agreeing with her, but you will get an opportunity to retain your Lightside integrity before the whole episode plays out.

Title: Re: Just got Knights of the Old Republic II
Post by: Butch on May 24, 2010, 12:18:10 PM
Okay.  I'll just try and be more Zen about it and do my best.  Don't like just muddling through things.  I was hooping for a "Quest X = 1 LS point" list but oh well. 

As a general rule of thumb, are the following statements true?

- A Sentinel Weaponmaster/Marauder who intends to do most of his killing with a lightsaber is better off with armor (heavy?) while a Consular Jedi Master/Sith Lord who intends to do most of his killing with force powers is generally better off with robes.

- A Sentinel Weaponmaster/Marauder that intends to do most of his killing with a lightsaber is better off pumping either strength OR dexterity while a Consular Master/Sith Lord who intends to do most of his killing with force powers is generally better off pumping Wisdom AND Intelligence.

- If one were interested in power gaming this thing, one would be better off keeping generally lightside/neutral party members around for influence if their main character was exclusive light, while a darkside exclusive character would be better off keeping generally darkside/neutral party members around.

Thanks.

Butch
Title: Re: Just got Knights of the Old Republic II
Post by: Thrugg on May 24, 2010, 04:55:52 PM
There are some pretty nice special robes that are halfway between robes and armor, ie they have armor and can be fitted with armor upgrades but they don't prevent force powers.  Wearing armor will cut out a lot of your powers, and even if you mostly swirl your saber, it's nice to have buffs like Speed.  But you certainly can use real armor, esp if you are all Str and no Dex.  If you go with Dex, you might as well use a lighter type of armor/robe that lets you benefit from your big Dex bonus.

Yes on the Str or Dex for fighters.  Casters need Wis and Charisma.  Charisma makes your spells harder to resist (even your lightning bolts).  Wis is probably still more important but you can't leave Cha behind.  Int is only used for skills.

The easiest path is to use clearly light siders when you go light and vice versa.  Some people are neither one nor the other inherently though, and are happy to go whichever way you do.  They ventured outside the confines of one-dimensional alignment where you're just good or bad, to include people who eg don't mind if you are lawful and good or lawful and evil, so long as you are lawful.  So you have quite a lot of party options.
Title: Re: Just got Knights of the Old Republic II
Post by: Butch on May 24, 2010, 05:39:35 PM
Thanks.  This first character is planning on lightsabers only as much as possible and he'll probably keep Kruela or whatever the old one-handed woman's name is around for buffs.  But here's a question.  When the game is turn-based, what good does the speed buff do?

Butch
Title: Re: Just got Knights of the Old Republic II
Post by: Thrugg on May 24, 2010, 09:39:33 PM
As well as doubling your movement speed and increasing your chace to hit with special attacks, the higher ranks add extra attacks per round.  Master Speed is 2 extra attacks per round and +4 to your roll on any special attacks for 30 seconds or so.  It's pretty sexeh.

Other buffs you can't use with armor on are Master Valor (+5 to all stats for the whole party), Force Resist/Immunity (increase chance to resist enemy force powers) and Force Armor (+6 to resists and armor).  You don't use all of those every fight even if you have them, but loading them all up before a key fight can make it a lot easier.  Also (minor spoiler) later on you can receive a special power that casts all those at once, after which you pretty much do use them all each fight, but that also only works without real armor on.

That said there are some very nice armors available by the time you get those kinds of powers, that offer great buffs of their own.  I think either way is perfectly viable.
Title: Re: Just got Knights of the Old Republic II
Post by: Butch on May 25, 2010, 05:34:37 AM
Other buffs you can't use with armor on are Master Valor (+5 to all stats for the whole party), Force Resist/Immunity (increase chance to resist enemy force powers) and Force Armor (+6 to resists and armor). 

Do I still get the benefits of these if a party member casts them while my main character is wearing armor?

Butch
Title: Re: Just got Knights of the Old Republic II
Post by: Thrugg on May 25, 2010, 08:15:08 AM
You get Valor, which affects the whole party. As far as I remember the others are personal buffs only, but it's been a little while.  Might be worth giving it a try in game.
Title: Re: Just got Knights of the Old Republic II
Post by: Butch on May 26, 2010, 07:39:51 AM
In the first KotOR it seemed to me that even though you could visit the planets in any order, Korriban was just naturally better fitted to be the final planet.  Is there any natural order like that for KotOR II?  Any planet I should make a point of visiting first or last or is there a case where "Planet X before Planet Y" would be a better option?

Butch

EDIT: typos
Title: Re: Just got Knights of the Old Republic II
Post by: Thrugg on May 26, 2010, 08:59:56 AM
(minor spoilers) You need to visit Dxun/Onderon twice so you can't do that one last.  I'm not actually sure what happens if you do.  The game is not so clean that you are always safe from painting yourself into a corner.  You may be able to fly somewhere you've already been, just wait a while, then fly back.

Dantooine is nice to do early for the rewards (mostly to do with creating your lightsaber).  But so is Nar Shadaa (mostly to do with NPC storylines, plus one quest that starts there that has you go to all the others).

So basically doing Korriban last after the other three in any order works again :)
Title: Re: Just got Knights of the Old Republic II
Post by: Butch on May 29, 2010, 11:34:45 AM
I'm asking this because I've read a lot of stuff about this game being buggy.  I'm still on the first part of Telos and just got the droid (that you control like a character) and stole the files I needed.  But then when I got back to controling my main character and went to find the shuttle to go planetside, I had no party members.  I got the message to go save the Thessalonians (or whatever those flat-faced hippie aliens are called) and keep getting my butt handed to me by these mercinaries.  Hard.  The one guide I looked at talked about how easy this fight should be and made no mention of you being solo at this point, which makes me wonder what the hell's going on here.

Is my game buggy and I'm supposed to have a little party backup at this point or do I just suck that bad (understandable) and I should be handling these fights solo?

Butch
Title: Re: Just got Knights of the Old Republic II
Post by: Thrugg on May 29, 2010, 06:37:33 PM
In most (not all) locations, you can pull up the list of available party members and swap them in and out as you wish.  Sometimes one or two may be unavailable for story reasons but generally you can mix and match as you need.

On the PC I think the L key opens up the page, but you can get to it through the same menu as you get to your inventory etc.

You certainly should have a party to help for the fight into the Thalassian enclosure.
Title: Re: Just got Knights of the Old Republic II
Post by: Butch on May 30, 2010, 09:55:15 AM
Ah.  I see.  So while the jury is still out on my just plain sucking (actually, it's not - I do) it turns out I am in fact a mental-midget and didn't know how to open up the party screen and change members.  Thanks Thrugg. 

Yeah, the fight wasn't too hard after all when one person isn't soaking up all the blaster fire. 

Butch
Title: Re: Just got Knights of the Old Republic II
Post by: Butch on June 22, 2010, 01:23:33 PM
Well, beat the game last night with my light side Jedi Sentential Weapon Master wielding a single lightsaber. 

The story was pretty interesting, and the gameplay wasn't bad.  I had intended to play through light side (saber) and then as dark side (force powers).  And playing through this time, I found that the force powers, especially the dark side powers like force storm were the most fun (and seemed to be the most devastating, although when my Exile (Ursus Majoris) was fully buffed most enemies were one or two hit kills at most.  But the idea of playing through Taris, Nar Shadda, and the rest over again is not appealing at all. 

Butch
Title: Re: Just got Knights of the Old Republic II
Post by: Thrugg on June 22, 2010, 02:24:02 PM
I would agree it doesn't have the replayability of KotOR I.  As you say Taris and Nar Shadaa both seem unnecessarily spread out into multiple zones which just means more walking and loadscreens.

I always like to run through at least once Dark Side though to take care of anybody who was annoying the first time through.
Title: Re: Just got Knights of the Old Republic II
Post by: Mad Godji on June 22, 2010, 03:13:49 PM
Hehe, yes, Star Wars game are ones where it's easy to enjoy playing dark side. The powers are jutst much more efficient (as consular/sith lord, you can just force storm your path through everything, Palpatine-style), and some characters do deserve payback.